Which receiver to get out of these two?

Discussion in 'Audio Visual' started by xenocea, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head New Member

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    I could not agree more with you on that point. If your system suits you, why would you really want to get on the "upgrade-us" path into the unknown. It really is marketing to the extreme.
    I know people with Wilson and Magico speakers, They spend there lives considering up-grading there amplification. Where-as my speakers where manufactured on the kitchen table,
    All the drivers are top of the range Scan Speak, with Mundorf crossovers. And they sound just as good as something with a fancy badge.

    The hi-end market is shrinking, mainly due to the costs involved, and the younger generation, simply ask where is the value. Plus music trends change, and the normal set-up's have been superseded with "Streaming" systems using downloads from people like "Tidal"
     
  2. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

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    OP:

    I presently have the accusound 6.6xd ebay special, centre channel has been swapped out for a Jensen AHT-4 ceiling speaker although the front and rear surrounds are still the same.

    I have a AVR-X 2200W driving these speakers, fronts being bi-amped, Audessey configured and then manually adjusted to a 75db reference at 0db on the receiver.

    The fronts are operating in full mode (no room for a dedicated LFE) and are a little bass heavy due to the nature of the ported towers and sound much cleaner when set to small and operating on an 80hz crossover.

    The surround volume is brought up due to the Denon dynamic EQ, it brings the surround perception to a noticeable level without needing to bring the system to a -15 db level, great for evening viewing and keeping the fronts from waking little ones in the other part of the house.

    most movies can be comfortably watched at ~36db, AVR doing all decoding from Kodi operating in passthrough.

    by no means is this combo a slouch, with a 75db setting dialled in at 0db reference, it's loud enough to easily peak above 60db at the nearest property boundary, this is through an insulated exterior brick wall.

    trying to watch a movie at reference levels can be insanely loud.
     
  3. steffan72

    steffan72 Member

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    You dont have to go high end in order to get pre outs.

    Go for something thats midrange and has pre-outs for 7.1......but try and find one that has the processing power for 7.4.1. that gives you some upgradeability in the future. You can use the internal amps to start with then when your ready get a power amp......i would suggest a 3 channel to rund your front stages (left right and centre) which will take the load off your avr and you will get a much better sound out of your speaks.......without having to worry about them clipping and damaging them.

    I still use a denon avr 3313 for example...............and it works just fine as a per amp with my emotival poweramp.
     
  4. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head New Member

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    Sound processors and Pre-amps only have Pre-out connections, Very few AVR's have a full set of Pre-out's simply because there not required, by your average AVR user. Some of the "so-called" flagship models might have a L & R single ended pre-out connection. Fully balanced connections are all but non-existent, exceptions being the Yamaha Aventage and Integra Models. None of these regardless of price , could ever be considered Hi-end.

    As for Hi-end , There are no Hi-end AVR produced simply because AVR's are not considered to be Audio quality, There simply produced for the home theatre market regardless of price. Most people who are series about there audio reproduction, would never touch an AVR, instead going for separates [pre-processors // power amps]

    Many years ago, back in the day I had a Yamaha Z11, Which was supposedly the duck's nuts of AVR's It was rubbish sound quality wise, and lasted in my system for about a month before I sold it off at half what I paid for it.

    Audio websites the like of AudiogoN, AussieAudioMart, and the giant, What's Best Forum, simply don't have listings for AVR's
     
  5. deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    Denon! Lovely transparent sound, Denon build quality and Sonos-beating HEOS system to boot.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    xenocea

    xenocea Member

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    Cheers for the replies everyone, and sorry for the late reply. A lot of interesting and different responses. I still haven't made a decisive decision yet on which one to get out of the two.

    I really don't want to go over my asking budget, and would prefer to keep it lower if possible. Should it be Onkyo or the Denon I asked in the OP? Can I please get more opnions on the ones I listed.

    Cheers
     
  7. reverb

    reverb Member

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    Personally I'm surprised that you mentioned a Yamaha AVR being bright. I'm willing to put money on that brightness being from your speakers (or whatever you auditioned a Yamaha AVR powering). I had an Onkyo TX-NR1010 flagship receiver powering a 5.1 speaker system comprising of Paradigm Studio 60 towers, Paradigm Studio 10 rear bookshelves and a Paradigm CC490 centre speaker (also Paradigm Sub12 subwoofer). I always had a "bright" sound (not harsh) until 2 months ago I purchased a new Yamaha RX-A3070 AVR that absolutely killed the Onkyo. It was the Onkyo receiver that was giving me the brighter sound and compared to the Yamaha it really lacked bass. I had to listen to music in 2.1, getting assistance from the subwoofer for the lower end. The Yamaha has a heap more bass (now just listening to a 2.0 arrangement, no need for a sub), is FAR warmer and laid back in sound than the Onkyo and the staging is much better. Larger centre stage and a lot more depth.

    Prior to owning that lemon of an Onkyo AVR I had 2 Yamaha AVRs that powered JBL towers and Mission towers. The JBL's were bright due to their crappy harsh tweeters but the Mission speakers were far from bright with the Yammy. They had far more high end presence when coupled with the Onkyo receiver...

    I can't comment on Denon as I have never used one, but based upon my experience I would never touch an Onkyo AVR again and would favour the Yamaha any day.

    edit: crazy value - http://www.eastwoodhifi.com.au/yamaha rxv683 av receiver.htm
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. OP
    OP
    xenocea

    xenocea Member

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    Nah it's not the speakers. Even reviews and users from other audio forums have pointed it out that Yamaha receivers do tend to emphasis brighter sounds compared to other brands. A while back I did briefly bought the Yamaha RX-V781 and tried it out for a week. This is just my opinion, but it doesn't sound as pleasant. It has a noticeable brighter presence instead of the warm natural sounds produced by my 6 years Onkyo old receiver. I should note, I used the same speakers on both receivers. All in all not hating on Yamaha, just don't prefer them.

    I'm still am very happy with the audio from my Onkyo but having upgraded to the 4K OLED TV & PS4 Pro. I need a modern receiver able to do both 4k & HDR. Both of the receivers I listed got equally great reviews, and both produced great warm natural sounds menioned in reviews. Hence why I'm in a little bit of a dilemma on which one to go for.

    Thank you for your reply though. Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  9. DarthWindu

    DarthWindu Member

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    audio is a funny thing. kinda-sorta, you get what you pay for within various price bands. my personal opinion is that you'd have to get pretty lucky to pick one thing that's super-noticably-better for the same money, 9 times out of 10, once you get out of bargain brands and snake oil brands. unfortunately, legit brands release snake oil products from time to time.

    you'd be ballpark similarly happy with either unit, dollar for dollar.

    My advice: don't buy in to internet hype (which I've fallen victim to plenty of times), ignore single-user anecdote (so many variables - room acoustics being the primary one), and just get something from a reputable brand within your budget, you'll probaly be happy enough with it :) Both of the units in your shortlist seem to meet the critical criteria for you.

    For reference, I have owned, in rough order:
    Onkyo tx-sr875, paradigm studio 60s and 690 (2007)
    Emotiva XPA-5 (2008)
    Marantz...whatever the top of the range pre-pro was (2008)
    Paradigm Signature s8s (2010)
    McIntosh MC452 & C48 (2011) o.0
    PC setup Peachtree nova125, B&W PM1s (2013)

    To be honest, I'm probably happier with my PC setup than with my main rig, which is utterly crazy given the price differential...but that's probably all down to room acoustics.
     
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  10. Gonadman2

    Gonadman2 Member

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    I just picked up a Marantz SR6012 and am loving it. None of the nonsense sound modes that most AVR's are bestowed with and a full complement of 9.2 outputs leaves most of the other stuff for dead. I initially tested the system on the Marantz amplifier, and while it sounds fine from the AVR, anything more than moderate volumes and it's obvious that it's running out of puff compared to the 5 and 2 channel Rotel power amps that normally provide power to my theatre. I purchased these separately second hand and they have provided sterling service for the past 6 years. Sonically I genuinely find it hard to pick the difference between mid to high end AVR's as they all sound pretty similar to me (not a glowing endorsement, but I wouldn't pick one brand out over another). I'd be much more inclined to choose based on functionality, ease of use, perceived reliability/warranty etc.

    Re: Onkyo - I had a TX-NR5007 a few years back and that thing was a disaster. I've been burned by Onkyo for life. The HDMI board crapped out shortly after I got it, so was replaced under warranty. Then it crapped out again just out of warranty, which I duly replaced. The third time it failed it went in the bin. Worst audio related investment I've ever made. Sample size of one and all that, YMMV.
     
  11. reverb

    reverb Member

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    As stated above, audio is a funny thing. Maybe the flagship/higher end AVRs are polar opposites in terms of brightness and warmth for some reason? lol
     
  12. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head New Member

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    Compaired to What ?

    Denon Integrated amps are superb quality, with a price to match, Unfortunatly very few models make it to Australia. As for HEOS, It's very good for what it is, and some will say it's a lot better then Sonos systems. But at the end of the day it's a cheap version of Meridian's Sooloos
     
  13. Zee

    Zee Member

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    I can't stress this enough - there are some stupidly sensational pieces of gear out there for truly bargain prices (compared to new gear, at least) on the second hand market. Speakers in particular, I find...

    Z...
     
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  14. Zee

    Zee Member

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    "Sonos beating" is... Subjective. Potential audio quality, yes. UI, on the other hand...

    I think I'd go with Bluesound if I wanted to get a "better" Sonos.

    Z...
     
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  15. steffan72

    steffan72 Member

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    Really.....my denon avr 3313 has a full set of pre-outs. most of your new denons have a full set of pre-outs. Most of the yamahas have a full set of pre-outs.

    While i agree seperates are much better for sound quality.........a halfway decent avr is a good stepping stone to the seperates....especially if it has pre outs so you can bypass the internal amps and use a poweramp.
     
  16. deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    I'd say it would compare favourably to anything in it's class and/or at the power levels it's capable of cleanly delivering.


    Qualify that statement objectively please..
     
  17. deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    I haven't tried Bluesound, and without knowing what is better for you, here's my basic requirements for music streaming systems:

    • high res local files
    • multiple local library options
    • support for major streaming services
    • mixed playlists - local & streaming
    • quick & intuitive UI
     
  18. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head New Member

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    HEOS, is not a separate entity, It's simply dumped on an overloaded power supply in an AVR. Really it's not up to the standard of Sonos, which is a separate system. And while that statement might sound contradictory, by way of my earlier comments, It's simply an observation, comparing the two systems, and the way there marketed to the public. Where by one system is thrust onto the public, by way of saying, " With this AVR, you also have the benefit of HEOS " But with SONOS you have to buy it separately . The fact it's a fully independent system does not always register with the buyer, it's just an added expense.
    SONOS is a budget copy of SOOLOO'S, which unfortunately is way beyond most peoples budget,
     
  19. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head New Member

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    Really if you require high quality downloads, Sites like HD Tracks [ https://www.hdtracks.com/] would be worthy of consideration,They do offer a free test download.
    If using Tidal [ https://tidal.com/au ] or [ https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aspiro.tidal&hl=en ]All there downloads now come with a MQA
    format [ http://www.mqa.co.uk/ ] Oppo 205, now offer a MQA free download. More information on the MQA site
     
  20. deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    HEOS is a separate entity if you choose the HEOS Link- their products are very similar to the SONOS product offerings. I don't agree that it's inferior.

    Meridian definitely have the swankiest hardware endpoints/media servers, which might be good for those who don't have a good NAS

    I do like HD tracks. Bandcamp is another favourite.
     

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