1. Win some Crucial goodies in OCAU's Christmas Treasure Hunt!
    Dismiss Notice

Which VR headset?

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by summoner, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Because out of three people who are friends, one of them has to know what they are talking about right? :lol:

    There are plenty of great games for VR, have you seen the list lately? It did start small. There are plenty of huge VR games ready to play.

    A 1080Ti is not powerful enough for VR with a simple Oculus or Vive with many games, asking for better graphics is a bit much.

    When Pimax 8k comes out its just going to drive graphics settings down so we can enjoy low SDE and huge FOV.

    Wireless will mean you will always be behind in the latest VR technology. Prepare to be stuck with lots of SDE and paying a premium for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  2. WRX_STi

    WRX_STi Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Cairns
    You might be right I was pretty drunk.
    Still... my CPU is a wanker and my GPU just sits there and waits for it in VR. Most the time.
    On the 4k Monitor, no drama, GPU hits 100% and does its best.
     
  3. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    You can't compare VR to 4k monitor.

    VR has two screens, both of which has to run at 90hz.

    As long as you have a reasonable CPU its going to be GPU limited in nearly every game.

    Keeping in mind that certain sim games have been ported to VR and you could probably never get 90fps in those games to begin with, VR doesn't give you a performance boost. In these cases you need to find the appropriate setting that uses CPU and reduce it, check the forums on steam for tips. If its a game where you don't move location like a driving/flying sim, you can manually run it with reprojection so only 45fps is required and you likely won't notice the difference.

    This isn't the neccessary for 99.9% of games.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    WRX_STi likes this.
  4. OP
    OP
    summoner

    summoner Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,510
    Location:
    Perth
    hmm.. seems from comments it really is 6-1 half a dozen the other.. Thanks everyone for your insights, gives me plenty to think about
     
  5. cdtoaster

    cdtoaster Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,638
    Location:
    Tokara forest
    i'm pretty happy with the WMR, i bought it because i am expecting to buy a much higher res headset down the line although the vive pro is available now
     
  6. WRX_STi

    WRX_STi Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Cairns
    Somewhere a while ago I looked up the maths for 2x RIFT screens resolutions at 90hz compared to 4k 60hz and the 4k screen required more video grunt than the VR headset.
    Yet I still see lower FPS using VR than the monitor and it has something to do with the CPU becoming a bottleneck sending 2x the instructions or whatever i'm back on the beers.
     
  7. nope

    nope Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    nsw meth coast
    Simply put the tech is in its infancy.
    Wait or get used tech cheap
     
    summoner likes this.
  8. RyoSaeba

    RyoSaeba Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    12,220
    Location:
    Perth
    I really like the VR goggles. My biggest issue is with motion sickness. With games where I'm "moving" around in the environment and i'm not actually moving in real life, ie racing sims, it's horrible. Can't even last a minute of that without feeling sick. But games where I'm not really moving much it's great. Immersion is awesome.
     
  9. dzajroo

    dzajroo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Pixel math
    4K monitor -> 3840x2160 pixels = 8,294,400 pixels
    Rift/Vive -> 2160x1200 pixels = 2, 259.000 pixels per eye = 4,518,000 pixels

    Thant's just the basic pixel to pixel count. Now, you only need 60fps to feed the 4k panels, while you need 90fps to feed the VR, also the FOV (Field of View) for VR is 110 degrees which is winder than your standard FOV while gaming on monitor (usually between 60 to 90). Wider FOV means more polygons on screen = more GPU power required to render this.

    Assumptions for the above:
    - excluding the new $3.5k worth of 144hz 4k panels
    - excluding any reprojection, ASW and others, as the real deal is still 90fps
     
  10. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    You can run 4k at 30fps on your screen and be happy. (well at least some people are)

    For the Rift/Vive, you need 90fps minimum. 85fps is too low.

    Your CPU can be the bottleneck if you run 30fps 4k, as the CPU only has to render 30fps.

    If you run 90fps 1080p on a regular monitor, then your CPU is unlikely to have anything to do with it.

    In other words

    CPU at 90fps requires 3x the CPU processing power that 30fps requires.
    If you run at 100% CPU AT 50fps, then you can't run it at 90fps.

    Considering 99% of VR games can run on any reasonable gaming CPU at 90fps, I would look at what is wrong with your computer or maybe you are running a ported sim game that needs to have its settings lowered.


    Also I'm curious how you are measuring FPS?

    If you aren't using the built in Steam setting to measure poor performance then it could be wrong
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  11. nope

    nope Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    nsw meth coast
    thats the least of current gen vr problems.
    fixed focus in most sets are a huge problem as well.
     
  12. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Were you demo'd by someone who knew what they were doing?

    VR is not very consumer friendly, here is a list of things that can cause motion sickness if you don't know what you are doing

    1. Driver/USB/Computer issues - that cause 0.5 second pauses that you might not notice, but will make you motion sick

    2. Tracking issues/inaccuracy - this can easily make you motion sick and people don't know the symptoms or solutions.

    3. Computer not powerful enough - If the computer is not powerful enough reprojection will automatically turn on and this feature makes people a little sick alone, but this is the lesser of evils as poor performance in general will make almost anyone sick. If you aren't at 90fps 24/7 then you can get sick, 85fps can make you sick.

    4. Game settings - If you aren't playing a VR specific game, which racing sims includes, you need to have the correct settings such as seat position and cockpit position as the wrong settings can make you sick. Correctly set, this is one of the most safest games to play, the cockpit/dashboard of the car/plane is very nice for your brain so it won't get sick. You also have to select the correct movement controls and speeds in VR specific games.

    Many VR settings, such as touchpad movement, or removing anti nausea settings can only be done by people who are used to VR and don't get sick, if a person new to VR plays like this is can make them sick straight away.

    5. Oculus vs Vive - Oculus can easily make you more sick unless you run a properly set up 3-4 camera setup that has USB ports powerful enough to run them properly.
    Vive can make you sick if you use it in a room with a mirror (i'm not joking)

    6. Being properly introduced to it - VR and sickness is an interesting subject. If you go straight into a game that has a higher potential to give you motion sickness then you'll just get sick and thats the end of it.

    By pushing yourself to go through it, you are training your brain to associate VR with sickness and you actually make it harder to get back into it the next time.

    You have two options
    1. Play in very short bursts to try and get used to it
    2. Play a regular beginner VR game and get used to VR first.

    #2 is what everyone should be doing. Play the games from Valve first.


    Now ask yourself, does the average person with VR know all about what I just said? No.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    nope likes this.
  13. nope

    nope Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    nsw meth coast
    Your right you need at least 244hz so each eye can see 122hz /s
     
  14. Sphinx2000

    Sphinx2000 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    6,271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    OP's original question was what VR OCAU people are using and why.
    If you don't actually have VR yourself and sprouting all this crap about minimum 4k resolution or 90 fps.. plenty of people are playing on less just fine.

    You just look like a threadcrapper who doesn't know what they are talking about because you have never actually bought one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    summoner likes this.
  15. nope

    nope Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    nsw meth coast
    Lol i dont care how i look mate its obvious the tech isnt ready, that said if someone made a light wireless 8-16k set tomorrow i'd be all over that.
     
  16. Vladdo

    Vladdo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,471
    Location:
    Laverton, Melbourne
    To be honest, I have an Oculus Rift, both the earlier Development Kit 2 and the Consumer Release version and I use it purely for seated play. I play DCS, Xplane and sometimes Project Cars 2, Skyrim and VR movies.

    I really don't bother with 99% of the on trick pony 'games' that are out there. I love the realism that VR brings, and yes, there are a number of weaknesses in the tech but, its very early days yet so who knows what it will be like in 2.. or 5 years time. There's just something very special about VR DCS and even if you can't read the dials without zooming in, or spotting enemies, there's just nothing quite like it in the comfort of your computer room.

    To say that you need 90fps, minimum, on EVERYTHING is really a disservice to the format in general, and doesn't really help anyone. That said, the games that have been re-purposed as VR capable, you do need an upper end machine to enjoy stutter free gaming but there's also a wealth of lower end games that aren't as hardware/resource heavy.

    If I was to buy into a VR system today, I'd wait. We're probably half way through a hardware cycle so who knows what a Rift or Vive 2 will bring. That said, there also needs to be a significant change in how software is written so that it's more efficient in VR rendering. I think at the moment, most games are coded for a traditional 2D rendering, which is why a lot of the higher end games require beefy hardware. I think the biggest improvement will be things like "Single Pass Stereo" in DX12, so rather than rendering things twice like in DX11, you can render much more efficiently once you start ramping up display resolutions.. Even if a 4k VR headset came out tomorrow, most systems will struggle unless you're playing low poly tech demos. We need the software to catch up with the hardware.
     
    summoner likes this.
  17. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    That makes no sense.

    Its 90fps no matter what the game. If you aren't getting 90fps, you will have reprojection automatically to bring it back up to 90fps. And as I said earlier, playing with reprojection in a game with physical movement is going to give you a poor experience.

    For people that don't know, reprojection is basically faked or interpolated frames, which is why it can make you sick in games where you move around, it also looks bad, especially on your arms/controllers.

    Again, you simply can't play VR at 30fps no reprojection as reprojection is built into SteamVR to stop you from becoming sick as you need 90fps.


    You are wrong, this has already been proven to be wrong because of SteamVR resolution scale.

    If you knew anything, you would know that.

    If you exclude FOV, a person who can use the Vive can use the new Pimax 8k that is coming out, no extra GPU power needed.

    Why? Because even at lower resolution you will enjoy a very low SDE, it would look a lot better even with a low end card like the 1060

    I can a guarantee you that almost everyone plays at 90fps, because reprojection will activate to ensure that.

    Reprojection itself, as well as constant dipping can make you sick or just give you a bad experience.

    Its amazing how much misinformation there is.

    Oculus/Vive = 90hz with full vsync enabled that can't be disabled. 90fps lock is how the entire SteamVR system is designed around and this is why Reprojection exists because otherwise we'd literally have people vomiting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  18. Vladdo

    Vladdo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,471
    Location:
    Laverton, Melbourne
    Welp, I'm out. Tired of dealing with fuckwits like you who have no clue whatsoever.
     
  19. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,948
    Location:
    Brisbane
    When you realise you are wrong and have no way to back up all the stupid things you said, its easy to just say "well i'm out" :lol:
     
  20. nope

    nope Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    nsw meth coast
    ignoring the dickheads whats the go with tearing on vr screens? Are they synced?
     

Share This Page