1. OCAU Merchandise now available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion here.
    Dismiss Notice

Which VR headset?

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by summoner, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    5,046
    Location:
    Perf
    You keep talking about resolution but unlike monitors its not the be-all and end-all of headsets. Its no good having a 50 bizillion-pixel display if the lenses are crap - and lenses are not easy to get right, thats why the hi-res Reverb G1 was still a bit of a dud.

    Id' rather have a lower-res headset with good lenses than a higher-res one with lenses that show visible smear, mura, god rays etc or have a tiny sweet spot.

    If the G2 Reverb does prove to have fixed all the issues with the G1 then it will be a solid buy and at that price will be another nail in the Cosmos' coffin and will certainly be a great option for all the countries that dont get Indexes, but the point is a headset can look great on paper but be shit in the real world, the only way we'll know is when reviews of production units start coming out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  2. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yes but as there are no perfect headsets, and the only headsets with a lot of issues like godrays, sweet spot etc were the first generation headsets, I think you are making a huge deal out of it.

    I sort of agree with your generation idea, you can be a little less strict with super high resolution if the headset lens is perfect, but none of them are.

    Thats why I'm suggesting the Pimax 5k/8kX, not because its perfect, but because you need a good minimum to enjoy VR outside of being a novelty.


    The HP Reverb G2 is definitely not the next latest and greatest headset.

    HP G2 Resolution: 2160x2160 per eye
    Pimax 5k: 2560x1440 per eye
    Pimax 8kx: 3840x2160 per eye.

    HP G2 Refresh Rate: 90hz
    Pimax 5K: 144hz
    Valve Index: 144hz

    HP G2 FoV 90hz: 114 Degrees
    Pimax 5K 120hz: 170 Degrees
    Pimax 5k 144hz: 150 Degrees
    Valve Index 144hz: 130 degrees

    Tracking is superior for the Index/Pimax, inside out tracking can't see things behind your back for starters.

    It has been beat in every category and it hasn't even been released.

    And as I said, refresh rate is king as it provides maximum comfort, foV and resolution is second.

    Having said that, the HP Reverb seems to have great pixel density, it would be good for VR "videos"
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  3. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    5,046
    Location:
    Perf
    The two Oculus headsets are by far the biggest selling on the market and they are both around $600, as opposed to the $1700 for the cheapest Pimax kit.

    Again like Nethiuz you are vastly overestimating where the VR market is at. People prepared to drop $2000 on a VR system are a minority.

    Again, I defy anyone who has used a Rift S to say there is a problem with inside-out tracking.

    Except the most important one - price.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  4. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yes but I'm not talking about the best selling headset.

    I'm talking about the headset that you can use regularly or beyond a novelty. Oculus is not very nice to look at for more a short time due to a very low refresh rate.

    Obviously its the best tracking they know, and factually it can't detect your hands in certain areas.

    Games on the Oculus store are made with the tracking flaws in mind, Steam games are often not made with this in mind.

    Only when you are considering the superior base stations, which if you already had base stations in the past, don't need to be purchased a second time.


    ------

    I'm not trying to argue that nobody should buy cheaper headsets, I'm just saying there is quite a difference between the cheaper and more expensive headsets. And more importantly there is a huge comfort and detail difference.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  5. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    5,046
    Location:
    Perf
    To use a car analogy, you are suggesting everyone buys a Ferrari when they get their drivers license? Really?

    Maybe people are quite happy with their Quests and Rift S’es? That certainly seems to be the view I’m getting across various tech forums.

    I’ve had a Rift S for almost a year and play a heap of Steam VR games, never had a problem with tracking.
     
  6. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Not at all.

    I'm just explaining that an old car from 1980 without aircon is not the same as a Toyota Prius, and not to expect it to be anywhere near the same.

    A lot of people complain that VR makes them motion sick or uncomfortable after a while and just assume all VR is like that, which is why I'm trying to explain, simple as that.
     
  7. hellaflush

    hellaflush Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,679
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Tossing up between Rift S and Quest but going off of 2 friends who have both, they both say Link is still not that great right now despite how much youtubers are hyping it.

    Conveniently, the Rift S was in stock on the oculus website over the weekend and I picked one up. Pretty quick turnaround as I was charged today, it shipping out of HK tonight and will be here this Thursday. Perfect timing with uni holidays starting haha
     
    Sciflyer and Nethiuz like this.
  8. MotoMan

    MotoMan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,775
    Location:
    Vic Rural
    Out of interest.. Have you actually spent any significant time in these various headsets?

    I've had the Oculus CV1, Samsung Odyssey+, HP Reverb and now the Oculus Quest

    While the increased resolution of the Reverb is pretty noticeable.. I actually played some Project Cars 2 yesterday with the Reverb and Quest (Using Link) back to back..

    Based on this play session I'm going to be selling the Reverb..
    The Quest is easily the best VR headset I've owned.. the 72Hz refresh had me fairly concerned as I can't stand a non 120Hz+ monitor
    It's a complete non issue as far as my eyes are concerned.

    The Pimax may have the FOV and Refresh.. but the Pimax 5k+ is close to $2K for the package with base stations and index knuckle controllers, hard to actually grab any stock, woeful software and next to no support from Pimax..

    The Oculus link so far for me has been perfect.. no lag.
    Add in Virtual Desktop for wireless streaming or the fact my Fav game (Beat Saber) has a native quest version which I can play ANYWHERE with no computers is seriously the future..

    I honestly think the only VR headsets anyone should be looking at purchasing in Australia are..
    Oculus Quest $649 and the Reverb G2 $1000-1099 (hopefully)

    The Pimax is expensive and has issues galore

    I'm not including the Index as it's not available locally and also costs $2k+ for the whole kit.. Plus a decent computer to run it

    Also crossing my fingers for a Quest 2 with a decent spec bump.. The Wireless gaming + the option to plug into a computer for a full fat experience is the way forward (for mainstream) VR gaming in my opinion

    The computer I'm using with the Link is a 3900X with a 2080ti.. So that may be why my Link experience has been perfect

    p.s. the Pico Neo 2 is using a new type of inside/out tracking using cameras + electromagnetic fields which seems to be pretty damn good at figuring out where the controllers are when they are behind your back or occluded
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
    whatdoesthisdo, Sciflyer and Duff Man like this.
  9. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yes. I've used all headsets excluding the Oculus Quest and HP Reverb.

    I would have an Oculus Quest to try out but its been sold out for ages. There is no competition for a mobile headset so its automatically the best, but the 72hz would be horrible as I'm sure its just as bad as the 72hz on the Oculus Go.

    No idea how i'll ever get a chance to try the HP Reverb, nobody seems to own them or sell them.

    I do agree to some point, but I'll also point out that anyone who purchased a Vive Generation 1 has the futureproof base stations and controllers for the Pimax or Valve Index, and likely the future.

    Pimax software support is slow, not bad. By the time headsets were shipping for post kickstarter orders the software was good.

    Not only that but we had a free upgrade to 144hz to potentially make it the best headset that exists today.
     
  10. MotoMan

    MotoMan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,775
    Location:
    Vic Rural
    They come back in stock fairly often.. But you have to snap it up really quickly..
    I wouldn't base the performance of the Quest on the GO.. The GO uses a single LCD panel with a lower resolution..
    The Quest has an OLED and it appears fairly low persistence.

    I honestly thought the 72Hz was going to be a deal breaker.. but it really isn't.

    If the Quest 2 builds on the first version even slightly, it's going to be an amazing headset

    P.S. Echo Arena is awesome.. I just punched my ceiling for the first time.. Jumping and reaching for a disc.. So I would say I was fairly immersed
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  11. Nethiuz

    Nethiuz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    QLD
    72hz isn't even that bad, in super demanding VR i sometimes set it to 60hz meaning i only need 30fps for motion smoothing to work! :) Pretty sure 90fps was just some go to for really motion sick people.
    FOV is what kills me, i can't stand anything small, trying to fly aircraft here. For kiddies VR games it wouldn't matter.
     
  12. proffesso

    proffesso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,100
    Location:
    Watsonia, Melbourne
    Quest2 should be good. im using a Pico Neo 2 Eye at the moment, which is slightly quicker + higher res, and its really good. i'd like more fov on a consumer headset though, at the cost power/resolution
     
  13. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    What games are you playing at 72hz? It can potentially work for darker games, but anything with bright/white areas will have a lot of eye strain and other effects, not everyone is affected but I know plenty that can at least notice it.

    I guess it also depends on your brightness settings, I know on the Oculus you can help the issues with low refresh rate by reducing brightness.

    I guess I just can't imagine using 72hz again as myself and others I've shown love how comfortable 144hz is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  14. proffesso

    proffesso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,100
    Location:
    Watsonia, Melbourne
    144hz isnt that big a deal unfortunately. it's like 144hz monitors...sure, it's nicer, but at the end of the day unless your super picky it doesn't matter that much. time/space warp gets 95% of the way there.
     
    hellaflush likes this.
  15. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I think you might misunderstand.

    Time/Space warp only works to the maximum frequency of your VR headset, if you have a 72hz headset, spacewarp will only work at 72hz. And its definitely not a perfect technology, its very well suited to games where the person doesn't move as much like simulators.

    Higher refresh rates have huge benefits like more comfort, less chance of causing motion sickness or eye strain etc.

    Its actually very different to regular monitors, 60hz is fine for PC monitors and people generally won't get issues with it due to how you are viewing it.
     
  16. proffesso

    proffesso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,100
    Location:
    Watsonia, Melbourne
    yeah, im well aware of how space/timewarp works. I've seen hundreds (thousands?) of people happily playing games internally at 30fps, timewarped to 60/75hz on headsets. psvr does 60hz timwarped to 120hz, again no problems there.

    what im saying it, most people either a. wont notice, b. wont think its worth it. again, like a 144hz monitor...most people are happy with 60hz.

    yes, 144hz is nicer, but its not the defining characteristic for the general public
     
  17. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The PSVR works well because its 120hz, not 72hz like certain other headsets.

    I think you seem to not understand that I'm not talking about timewarp at all, in fact its completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about. Frames per second is not relevant here as there is timewarp etc.


    Refresh rate is the defining characteristic to the general public because the general public are generally more sensitive to VR related motion.

    This is coming from someone who uses VR in a school and has plenty of experience with it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  18. proffesso

    proffesso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,100
    Location:
    Watsonia, Melbourne
    did I not just explain it? 30~hz spacewarped to 75hz seems to keep most people happy. 60hz - 120hz works better, but isn't the paradigm shifting experience you make it out to be, and 144hz is similarly just ever diminishing returns.

    general consumers im talking about, the overwhelming bulk of purchases. not VR enthusiasts, yes I get it...

    ps. this is coming from someone who has been in the commercial vr space (games, freeroam and enterprise) (hardware included) for sometimes now...have given a few talks on the subject too :)
     
  19. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've had plenty of people use lower refresh rates and experience discomfort they didn't get at 90hz or higher.

    There is a reason why first gen headsets were 90hz and PSVR was 120hz, you definitely wouldn't volunteer to do this as it just increases hardware requirements and limits usability (especially as we didn't always have timewarp and its not perfect either way).

    90hz is also the agreed upon standard for VR as any lower causes issues.

    John Carmack, Oculus CTO mentioned why they don't use 90hz in the Quest

    Carmack admitted that the Quest's OLED screen can actually run up to 90Hz, but the company stuck with 72Hz since that was a more achievable framerate for mobile games.

    Also from Carmack


    90 Hz is the magic number where "95 to 99 percent" of people don't notice the refresh rate anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  20. Nethiuz

    Nethiuz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    QLD
    I don't play anything at 75Hz, i sometimes set it to 60Hz lol. But i can also go to 144hz in the Index, some flight sims with all the candy are hard to run.
    I am quite happy i don't get sick.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: