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Which VR headset?

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by summoner, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. deconst

    deconst New Member

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    To get your hands on a decent headset bundle, I'd suggest ordering a Pimax Artisan+Vive 1.0 bundle off Aliexpress. Pimax headsets have trouble with 2.0 basestations because Pimax firmware isn't great, and some prefer the Vive wands over the Valve knuckles.

    I got a 5k+ bundle direct from Pimax and I've loved it, once it eventually turned up - but I've still had to supplement with a number of accessories (face foam, comfort head strap, prescription lenses, and a tape measure as a counterweight) to make it comfortable.

    Pimax has ceased bundle sales to fulfil their Kickstarter orders but they say all 8KX orders will be shipped by the end of the month. The Pimax 8KX reaches the technical limits of resolution and refresh rates of the DisplayPort 1.4a interface. Its firmware is very new and all sorts of efficiency gains could yet be made. Love it or more likely hate it, Pimax is very much a 'build the aeroplane while in the air' company, so if I was buying a VR headset to last, I'd get the 8KX bundle.
     
  2. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    I should a Reverb2 coming once they land, looking forward to getting a lynx in a few weeks, that'll be interesting.

    also budgeted in a 3090 to drive this damn Varjo properly :Paranoid:
     
  3. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

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    lol @ Pimax crowd - pay 50% more for questionable build quality, questionable software, questionable customer support and still have to deal with lighthouses that have known issues and are still not immune to tracking loss

    The success of the Quest has shown that if the future of VR is cable-free headsets it certainly wont be cable-free headsets stuck in one spot by lighthouses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  4. Nethiuz

    Nethiuz Member

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    You can get adaptors online that fit the Vive deluxe head strap to the Pimax. Apparently the way to go for comfort.
    https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/711101821/pimax-5k-8k-htc-vive-deluxe-audio-strap
     
  5. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    I paid $700 aud for my Pimax 5k on release, but backers get special prices for Pimax equipment.

    VR in general is not perfect, Pimax does not have many specific issues with their headsets for the average person. I'm not saying Pimax is the answer, the Valve Index is a better choice especially due to the nice controllers.

    Your "known issues" are just people having technical issues, you'll find that in all VR.

    Quest is more of a success with the mainstream crowd because they don't have gaming computers. It has barely any games and has huge compromises to make it work. If I was to ever own one it would be in addition to a proper VR headset.

    The best quality VR is always going to be a cabled experience due to technology advancing quickly and wireless and portable technology only advancing with it, not surpassing it to meet current demands.

    Pimax have their own stuff as well now, I'll be getting it for free as a backer soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  6. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

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    We've already been through this, the HP which you dismiss and call "obsolete" is at least $600 cheaper than any 5K/Index system, offers high-end resolution, lighthouse-free tracking and Index-quality sound.

    If Pimax was such a slam-dunk VR solution, why is it little more than a bit player in the market?
     
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  7. power

    power Member

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    are you saying i can give up on my Index dream?
     
  8. Nethiuz

    Nethiuz Member

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    Fully agree, the G2 is pretty much perfect (Except personally i prefer more FOV).
    For anybody thinking of VR at this point in time it would be the go to.
     
  9. Sphinx

    Sphinx Member

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    The HP G2 has 2160x2160 per eye LCD resolution @ 90hz, ~115 degrees field of view and no room cabled lighthouses required for tracking.
    The Valve Index has 1440x1600 per eye LCD resolution @ 90hz, ~130 degrees field of view but requires a room cabled lighthouse system for tracking.

    Both have basically the same head mounting, lenses and off-ear audio system as they collaborated together with design.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  10. power

    power Member

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    /me makes hmmming noises.
     
  11. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    I'm more saying the Index is the slam dunk solution. With a cheap and easy upgrade path to the next Valve/Pimax/HTC Headset.

    The G2 has the resolution and the price. I'm not saying you shouldn't get it, just that resolution is just one aspect of the VR experience. and the G2 is definitely lacking in other areas.

    Or in other words, what happened when they release the G3 with wider FoV? Or the G4 with higher refresh rate? You'll be spending all your money on upgrades for something that already exists today.

    For a budget headset the Quest 2 looks like it could be a good option, depending on specs.

    The Valve Index can actually do 144hz. This is a very important feature so I thought its important to add. The Pimax can do the same so I can tell you from experience its worth it. More immersive, heavily reduced motion sickness potential and everything is silky smooth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  12. MaximusSmurf

    MaximusSmurf Member

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    I'm really not across the market all that well. Had an Oculus Quest and loved it. Sold recently with the anticipated 2.0 release getting announced soon.

    Can I ask for some general points on why you guys here SEEM to not love it as a unit? I had no issues getting immersion from the full mobility that comes with being completely unthethered. I didn't hook it up to my PC once as I never felt the need for extra grunt and I think I was wanting more of the immersive / mobile experience than a more cabled and stationary one.

    Thoughts on this in general or whether the Quest 2.0 will be any good / worth it?

    Oh one more thing, that's the games market like on the other headsets? Steam games etc? Quest is unique in having it's own store and games designed for it I suppose.
     
  13. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Besides the fact that people hate facebook and how they are now forced to login with their facebook account, there are a few other reasons why some people don't like them.

    Pros:
    Wireless by design
    Portable by design

    Cons:
    Specifications that's lower then any other headset
    A lot of people say the PC-link doesn't work very well, I can't comment as I haven't used it.
    Very little games and forced into a walled garden with no developer freedom.
    No Game mods
    No Community VR modded games.
    Many games simply impossible to port to the Quest.


    Personally I'd love a Quest, or better yet Quest 2, but I wouldn't replace my regular VR headset, I just want one for high physical movement games where the cord might normally get tangled.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  14. MaximusSmurf

    MaximusSmurf Member

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    Ah yep. The FB thing doesn't phase me one bit. I know so few people who don't have an account the backlash has surprised me.

    Can't speak to PC link as I never used it, but apart from the fact you have to enable it, and wait for it to connect (not just pick up and go like Rift) I thought it was pretty good.

    Saw a sideload thing... online marketplace for heaps of homebrew content, no idea if that's all garbage or how well it works.

    Are the specs 'that' much lower? Rumours or more res and higher hz with 2.0.... not to mention it's considerably cheaper than any other units.

    Curious about the porting.. I mean, what games can't you play on the quest? I thought it would (with PC-link) play anything on Steam. Are there other games elsewhere that I'm unaware of that are amazing?
     
  15. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Yes the specs are a lot lower

    the refresh rate is 72hz, which doesn't feel good and increases the chances of motion sickness by a lot. Other headsets average 90hz and go up to 144hz.

    Resolution is low, so a lot of screen door effect. Same with low Field of Vision.


    A lot of people say the PC-link has issues, but good enough to use if you don't have anything else.

    But as I said, a great wireless/portable headset.
     
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  16. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

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    Actually no it doesnt

    Its not the refresh rate on its own that causes motion sickness, its perceived lag from fps not keeping up with head movement, which is actually more likely to occur with higher refresh rates than lower ones because it takes considerably more GPU grunt to keep screens refreshed at 144hz than it does at 80 or 90 or whatever

    A "144hz" headset will make you sick if the PC can only push 100fps whereas you would be perfectly fine using that same system pushing 80fps to an 80hz headset.
     
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  17. power

    power Member

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    i guess i can't really comment to much as I don't get motion sickness at all and the Vive Pro (a 90Hz headset) to be absolutely fine I just wanted the resolution to be higher.
     
  18. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Sorry but this is incorrect.

    A lot of research went into VR before VR even became a thing, it was decided that 90fps was the minimum to provide a good experience. It doesn't mean you can't go lower, but there is degradation.

    Oculus have only gone below 90fps because there simply isn't enough power in them to do higher.

    Refresh rate on its on can 100% cause motion sickness. I didn't say it was the only way to get it, its just one of the ways. There are a lot of ways VR can give you motion sickness.

    "perceived lag from fps not keeping up with head movement" sounds a lot like latency, which yes is another way you can get motion sickness.

    144hz with 100fps is going to be bad for multiple reasons but not related to why 80hz at 80fps is not very pleasant. You can fix that issue by motion smoothing that 100fps to 144hz, or just setting it to 90hz if thats all your computer can handle for that particular game.

    Not even playstation VR goes below 90hz, and thats something considering the lack of graphical power the playstation 4 has.

    I've personally tried multiple refresh rates in VR headsets and the changes are huge, especially in bright areas. These are facts, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy your 72hz headset, its just below satisfactory.

    Yup, John Carmack decided 90hz is the minimum for a good experience, and everyone else went with that.

    I find the extra refresh rate very useful in games with a lot of whole body movement, I also find that those people who at 90hz can't play for very long due to motion sickness, can play for ages at 144hz.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  19. deconst

    deconst New Member

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    Yes this is correct. From my experience, the thresholds that matter beyond which there are diminishing returns:

    Frame delay to under 20ms
    FPS to over 40, after which super smoothing helps lift it up to the refresh rate
    Refresh rate to 75Hz
    FOV to Pimax "normal", ie. 170 degrees

    FOV has a large impact on comfort and immersion, to the point where I am willing to put up with an otherwise degraded visual experience.

    Upgrading my 1070 Mini OC to a 3080 will greatly improve things, even if I put off upgrading my i7-6700 a while longer.

    Only the 3090 has the power to make full use of the dual 4K displays in the Pimax 8KX at the high refresh rates but you have to be willing to put up with its questionable build quality

    Right now the best way to get in to VR is get a second hand OG Vive and buy a Pimax Artisan, 5k+ or 5k XR headset. Panel resolution doesn't matter as much as purchasing a product with a modicum of manufacturing experience.

    Oh, and the Quest is great. I recommend it to friends with kids and no gaming PC. Not one of them has purchased one yet though..
     
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  20. Sciflyer

    Sciflyer Member

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    No, the best way to get into VR (especially if you don’t know whether you’ll like it or if it will just be a phase for you) is to just buy a Rift S for like a third of the price and with no Lighthouses to worry about.

    As we’ve discussed, next-gen headsets will be considerably better than what is available now so save your money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020

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