Why does Java suck so much?

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by one4spl, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. Jazper

    Jazper Member

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    Without electricity, and/or programming a machine is no more useful than a brick.

    The difference between a biological organism and a machine (at this point in time) is that the biological organism already has the programming (DNA), and the programming evolves over generations. The other thing is the software evolves the hardware over time. A machine doesn't evolve of its own accord as the software doesn't evolve of its own accord, yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  2. phreeky82

    phreeky82 Member

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    Please get back to me when you've worked out how to grow, understand and communicate with such an adaptable bio computing system.

    Until then, it's really just a dream. By all means, work towards it if you wish, but please don't underestimate how powerful the human mind is (and no, not from a raw algorithm following and number crunching point of view).

    The most desirable solution, in my opinion, is one that utilises the strong points of all tools available. The human mind is one of those tools.
     
  3. Jazper

    Jazper Member

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    Speak for yourself
     
  4. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    ok i'm definitely adding "paradigm shift" to my buzz word card for this thread.

    Your second paragraph is COMPLETE wank btw and DEFINITELY does not follow logically from the first. What you are poorly trying to describe is pretty commonly known as strong AI, and despite DECADES of research and development by brilliant minds, so far has come up with SFA. There are various schools of thought about why this is the case- personally i subscribe to the theory that von neumann machines (i.e. all modern computers) are fundamentally different to our brains.

    In short, it doesnt matter how much you overclock your pentium 4 it is never going to become self aware.

    Now when you can produce some actual evidence behind your BS claims we'll talk but right now you are just waving your hands around in the air talking complete crap
     
  5. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    OK.... when you can program something to have abstract thought, ten and only then will it rival the human brain.

    Also, I have a room full of old comuters, all they do is sit there and gather dust, they don't seem to be evolving, they are just inanimate objects.
     
  6. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Nice attempt at sarcasm. :thumbdn:

    Like Flash, Silverlight has a fairly open ended level of client side application programming support and can be used with server side code (PHP, ASP, ASP.NET, etc) to build complete UI based applications that can be run inside, and possibly outside of a web browser.

    It is still early days for Silverlight and Moonlight ( edit: plugin ), we haven't seen what they fully capable of yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  7. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    I imagine for AI to happen we will need a completely different CPU architecture. The genetic computing where hardware 'evolves' was a pretty interesting idea of this, however it was only for very simplistic problems.

    http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=870 Interesting article on it, kind of off topic though.
     
  8. syahrr01

    syahrr01 Member

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    :lol:

    Are you saying Java's primary target market is web apps?
     
  9. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Nope. I'm not that shallow.

    It's used for servers, clients, embedded, etc as well.
     
  10. syahrr01

    syahrr01 Member

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    :confused: I'm confused. Then how will Silverlight replace Java's market share of the above application scope?
     
  11. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    nice attempt at rebuttal :thumbdn:

    i still stand by my original statement that JavaFX is a direct competitor to Silverlight. You compared it yourself to "Flash".

    This is not java's core market. What the hell do you mean by "Java" anyway?! I am referring to the J2EE stack, which is what most of the java code base is tied to. If you mean something else be more specific.
     
  12. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Probably should have clarified my first post properly.

    I meant for web applications like Ciscos web based device manager or java based internet banking interfaces, etc.

    Edit: Fixed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  13. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    I was referring to what Java is commonly used for in that post.

    The only area I could see Silverlight and Moonlight replacing Java would be in the web application UI role. Major work still needs to be done before that happens, it's shit slow right now and Moonlight (the mono port of Silverlight) is still in development.

    Like I originally meant to say...

    it will be interesting to see if Silverlight and Moonlight eventually replace Java for web application UI development.

    Web application UI replacement in the context of (examples only): Cisco Web based Systems Device Management UI, Internet Banking UI, etc...
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  14. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    The brain is a machine of 100 billion neurons. it has a limited capacity. you can map all areas of the brain to certain functions like sensory perception, motor coordination, right and wrong, memory, computation. If you think the brain is something other than just a machine, and if you think your mind is somehow separate to the blob of meat in your skull, a study of psychology will provide a different view.
     
  15. STIK79

    STIK79 Member

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    this is going to lead to a nasty debate about determinism lol...
     
  16. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    deepspring: fair enough.. actually i am quite interested to see how silverlight goes, but i probably wont end up using it for work as i do more back end stuff. I havent personally havent seen JavaFX used yet either, although i have heard some rumblings about it at meetings for some upcoming projects.

    are there any high profile sites out there on the web that show off silverlights capabilities??
    .... how old are you? I am guessing <18 and ready to revise downwards.

    Why the @#$@# would psychology have anything to do with this? If you were going to make that argument it would have to come from neuroscience (or philosophy). What the @#$@# would psychology have to do with it and more importantly who are you to talk down to us about it? Or are you a "movie star psychologist" as well?!
    Please.. Prove us wrong with some of your (surely impressive) understanding of psychology principles. I can't wait.

    Btw if you're a troll i give you top marks because your comments are double-plus hilarious
     
  17. Silenius

    Silenius Member

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    Why the hell are you using a shitty web interface anyway? Use SSH. That's probably the first problem.
     
  18. phreeky82

    phreeky82 Member

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    There is a significant difference between a chunk of silicon engineered to route electricital signals and so on, and a bio system that itself physically adapts giving a true "learning" process.
     
  19. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    I can only speak from experience because I studied psychology, not neuroscience, but I wasnt trying to spout my opinion it is standard curriculum.
     
  20. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Never seen Java used as a Web UI, have seen Javascript which is not Java.

    Banking... Web UI is HTML, Java is used for exactly what it was designed for as middleware, as for Cisco devices and other such embeded devices how do purpose they run Silverlight, this would assume that an OS capable of running Silverlight is used. Very doubtful the embeded device market will start using MS products, and more doubtful Cisco will abandon IOS infavour of anything else.

    Java is here to stay, too much money and time has been invested into companies codebases to refactor, refactoring isn't profitable, modifing for new features or products is.
     

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