[WIN10] Windows 10 Mega thread

Discussion in 'Windows Operating Systems' started by MR CHILLED, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Except that when my iPhone does an upgrade for example, it doesn't wind up like this. My last phone went from iOS 6 to iOS 11 with every point release along the way without a problem. Initially I remember that iOS updates did reset or alter a couple settings (e.g., my Bluetooth kept being turned back on). But nothing like Windows feature updates. If Apple can work out it, why can't Microsoft?


    /EDIT: I was messing around in the Windows Store about to reinstall the Realtek Audio Console for some testing (long story short: I'm using headphones, it's pointless), when I saw this and thought it was amusing:

    Untitled.png

    Yes it does, it's activated and has been working for over a month now :) I double checked and it's still activated on my system - I used a legitimate Windows 7 retail key. The store still providing top quality MS reliability.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  2. PsydFX

    PsydFX Member

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    You’re comparing an Operating System that runs on a small, closed hardware platform, to something that runs on a near limitless combination of hardware devices. On top of that, iOS still follows a more traditional release cycle, and Apple has had their fair share of major issues between releases.
     
  3. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    I'm comparing how software updates are rolled out, not their content. You're right, Apple obviously has few driver issues for example when they have a fixed platform vs. PC. But they still manage to install even major upgrades on millions of users' devices without losing any of the hundreds of different user settings, or crippling the huge variety of apps, or losing personal data for the most part. Clearly, they've structured iOS so that key portions of the OS can be changed without also mangling user data.

    Microsoft on the other hand is using a clunky in-place upgrade process for feature updates in Windows, which may have been acceptable when it was done for Service Packs, because they came out sometimes once every two years. Even with service packs, the common sense approach was to do a clean install with the service pack slipstreamed for optimal results. But it's not an acceptable approach for updates that are released twice a year.

    Put it another way: if MS can't do feature updates without putting user data at risk or mangling user settings, they need to stop and reassess their strategy. Nothing about these feature updates is of a critical nature, nor is it being driven by user demand. Also, I'm not sure why you seem to think that MS is not following a traditional release cycle. Yes, they don't release big new versions of Windows every few years. But is there anything more traditional than releasing updates for your software every 6 months, rain, hail or shine? Updates rolled out on a fixed schedule, not reactive or proactive, and even then they often barely manage to meet their own announced release date!

    Speaking of silly updating processes, as I mentioned in my previous post, I was reinstalling the Realtek Audio Console. I'd already installed it earlier and had uninstalled it, so it was marked as being 'owned' by me in the Windows Store But I couldn't get it to redownload for love or money. Kept getting an error. Tried multiple times and failed, googled the error and it's a common one with no real solution. It was part of my experiment in tidying up the mess that's resulted from the move towards Universal Windows Platform drivers.

    When I installed the ASUS audio driver package on my new Z390 motherboard, for some reason it installed both the older and newer style Realtek audio drivers, as well as the new Realtek Audio Console. The result is that unnecessary services are loaded, audio doesn't work properly, effects are screwed, etc. See here for some details. Again, to cut a long story short here (because I'm writing about this whole mess in a longer article), I managed to remove the old Realtek high definition drivers, got the built-in Microsoft Realtek HD Audio UWP drivers to install so that at least my audio can function correctly, and I got the Realtek Audio Console to finally reinstall but it wouldn't open, just sits on the splash screen loading indefinitely (surprise, surprise, it's a high-quality UWP app!). The many theoretical benefits of UWP translate into a lot of practical issues, and it's much harder to resolve them because unlike the older-style drivers, untangling and manually editing/fixing UWP drivers is impossible. This is the future of Windows drivers. Be afraid, be very afraid.
     
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  4. shredder

    shredder Member

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    My daily Windows update, including OS and all apps and drivers. No special setup. One command, bang, done, no probs. Looking forward to Linux, PI?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  5. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Nope :( I'm taking ages just finish off an article on my new system, and I've finally got Windows 10 tuned to perfection (details in aforementioned article :)). Not too keen to get started on learning and optimizing an entirely new operating system from scratch. I'm a creature of habit, and it seems like it's going to take a lot of work to get up to the same level of experience I have with Windows.

    I do know how easy it is to update Linux though because I've updated it often through the Linux shell in Windows 10:

    Untitled.png

    Remember, even though I complain a lot about Windows 10, modesty aside, I personally have no real issues with getting it to run well, and fixing the sometimes bizarre things it does. It's more a general concern for everyday users, and of course, the future of Windows itself, that makes me post my complaints.
     
  6. shredder

    shredder Member

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    Fair enough, I understand. But also, due to those same computer skills, Linux will be easier than you think. You don't need experience to solve problems that don't exist - you just get on with using.

    (note: I'm not down-talking Windows - I do dual-boot, and I don't mind Windows 10 - my Linux talk is just meant to broaden context)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  7. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    I don't want to imply that I'm skilled with Windows, I just have a lot of experience with it. I've reached a point where I can fairly intuitively work things out. It takes a long time to build up that sort of experience. I'm not worried about Linux being hard, I'm worried about achieving the same level of proficiency with it as I have with Windows.

    Linux is a lot like global warming: initially, it's hard to accept that it's real, then eventually, it seems much easier to just think of it a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese. Also, just like global warming, every year is supposed to be the year we get to see how important it is. Ultimately, just like global warming, it will eventually go away with minimal effort on my part, and everything will be fine again :)
     
  8. supasaiyan

    supasaiyan Member

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    on my work laptop, I have 2 headsets. One is BT, and the other connects via USB. I normally use the BT in the office and the USB at home. BUT, I have to manually disable one or the other to use the other one.
    Is there any way to not have to do this?
     
  9. power

    power Member

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    it's climate change not global warming. just pointing that out for your continued learnings.
     
  10. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    I notice you haven't turned that into the equivalent of a .bat file
    Why not? Is it because linux scripting is not as intuitively simply as writing the command into a text editor and changing the extension to .bat?
     
  11. shredder

    shredder Member

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    Yes it's basically the same process (with trivial differences). I mean, Linux won't give you a child prompt every time you run the script ("Are you sure you want to run this file? Yes/No"), but it's the same basic functionality.

    Scripting is quite a mature, evolved system in both operating systems.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  12. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    I was being delightfully witty in subtly drawing parallels with a certain Donald J Trump, who thinks that a cold winter makes "global warming" hard to believe (hence also the Chinese Hoax reference) :)

    See, there again, I don't want or need to script anything. Using Bash is painful. I used MSDOS and AmigaDOS for years, but I've become used to point-and-click GUIs for pretty much everything now.

    I appreciate that command line interfaces, scripts, macros, more direct access to your hardware can give you better options. But it distresses me a bit to see just how divergent things are becoming. On the one side, you've got Windows 10 heading towards autopilot mode, which updates your system even if you don't want it to, and where even the installation of an audio driver has reached a point where I'm actively fighting against the system to get what I want; then on the other side, you've got Linux, where seemingly anything is possible, as long as you can pretty much learn the equivalent of a new language in terms of commands :)

    Where's the happy medium?
     
  13. shredder

    shredder Member

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    For context: I'm no Linux poster child. I only use Ubuntu, and that only for a few years. I was an MSDOS boy too, decades ago, and did desktop Windows for 20 years.

    You don't need to script anything. The need to use command line doesn't differ fundamentally between Windows and Ubuntu. I've gotten by with a mere handful of basic commands, and even those, it's only because I'm a geek and enjoy that sort of thing. e.g. that update process above - all perfectly GUI-able, in fact the default Ubuntu install will guide you through enabling auto-updates.

    You have a bit of fear of the unknown with regard to Linux - like the one who fears leaping the gap for the first time, but afterward realises that not only were most of the fears unfounded, but that it was actually fun too.

    I'm interested in some specific examples of the kinds of proficiencies you fear losing in the transition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  14. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    I'm discontinuing installations for 1809 with my clients - just had the third client in a row calling me up telling me the wifi's gotten corrupted.
    Along with the network sharing being broken, this is not fit for release.
     
  15. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    That's why it's best to go into the change open with no preconceptions, force yourself to totally avoid Windows and find ways to use Linux to achieve your daily goals and enjoy learning something new. This is the really important part, you need to enjoy the fact you're learning something new and breaking free from something that has so many issues.

    As someone that was once in the exact same position as yourself I did it, it is possible, and I'll never go back. ;)
     
  16. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    This is interesting, I reckon I've come across this with my clients. What do you mean by corrupted WiFi?
     
  17. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    To be honest I've seen this with 1803 as well, but basically the wifi stack gets corrupted such that nothing happens when you click on the wifi symbol in system tray (to search for a wifi signal). There are no workarounds other than reinstallation, that I've found.
    But 1809 seems to be worse at it, and also worse at regular fails like wifi drivers not working after an update (or having to remove the device and re-scan to get the wifi adaptor to work, that sort of thing).

    In other news I noticed yesterday that a new installation of win10 1809 will notify the user in the system tray that there are critical updates available, when you click on the symbol it takes you to the 'Check for Updates' button. It knows there's updates available but doesn't start downloading them or take any action. Conning people into beta-testing. It's revolting that this behaviour is the New Normal for windows.
     
  18. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I had a client with an issue whereby their WiFi would drop out and the SSID would essentially become invisible, so you couldn't reconnect. Every other SSID in the area was available with the exception of the SSID they were previously connected to.

    Does that sound like the issue?
     
  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Windows is what it is today due to complacency. There were already signs of trouble as far back as Win2K, and everyone who brought up the problematic changes got labelled zealots.

    As always, XKCD sums it up well: https://m.xkcd.com/743/

    Windows 10 is the end result of 20+ years of customers being willing to bend over and take whatever was thrust upon them without putting up a fight. You want better? You have only one voice that can be heard, and one vote that matters: put something different on your computer. Inconvenient? Maybe. But here's everyone bitching about the inconvenience of where we ended up anyway. So clearly "convenient" hasn't worked very well.
     
  20. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    I've always been happy with 10 personally, albeit with Start 10 getting rid of the stupid Metro GUI. I've only had one major issue, the broken WiFi I've spoken of.

    That said, I've been dual booting Mint Cinnamon for some time now. This, combined with the fact that I am about to buy a new rig, which will include a motherboard, which would need an activation, means I'll be changing platforms.

    Although as we all know its easy enough to scam an activation out of MS, I CBF, and a new copy, even if I go with an OEM version of Home (currently using Pro), starts at around $145 in the shops. Not sure what the online price is now though? I'm also not prepared to buy a dodgy key for cheap, and not prepared to pay full price for Win 10 from legit sources.

    The consequence being that I'm switching to Mint full time. Its not the OS, its the price that is making the final decision for me. Although I have no problem with Win10, I do have a problem with the price. Mint is a perfectly acceptable alternative for me and costs nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019

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