[WIN10] Windows 10 Mega thread

Discussion in 'Windows Operating Systems' started by MR CHILLED, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    What's fascinating to me is (a) I loathe Windows, (b) I've not had a single issue of note with Win10, despite running it in several sites and at home for my kids gaming rigs.

    Windows 10 has been the most stable, the most reliable, and the most useful Windows release for me, honestly since the Win3.11 -> Win95 jump. I mean, it's still Windows, and it's still like trying to swim laps in a pool while wearing a suit (because Windows, like the Qwerty keyboard, is designed to slow down everyone to the lowest common denominator). But, it's genuinely the least-worst Windows I've used to date.

    And forced updates are awesome. I've heard almost nothing of malware and virus activity in "regular numpty" land. None of my relatives ask me for computer help at family meetups. Everything "just works", people are forced to be secure even if they are stupid and turn off security settings, and life is good.

    Equally fascinating is this thread, and thread like it around the Internet. It seems the only people Windows 10 is pissing off are the die-hard WindowsXP-8.1 era crowd. Conversely, anyone else is perfectly happy with the improvements compared to decades gone by.

    I mean, I still refuse to put this crippled shit on my personal desktop. But it's the first Windows I haven't hated rolling out en mass or witnessing family members use in... well... forever really.
     
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  2. Hotrod2go

    Hotrod2go Member

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    Oh my bad then.... I was comparing it to that other great OS - win 7, didn't have these issues when that came out, even yrs after it's release. But then I was using Intel hardware back then, so maybe....?
     
  3. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    My big issue is pretty simple. I want the non-spyware version aka enterprise.

    I still wonder if Agg might want to sell us enterprise versions under his enterprise? ;p
     
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  4. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Yeah it did. Take your rose coloured glasses off. I've been an enterprise sysadmin since the Win98 days, and I'm telling you Win7 has just as many fuckups in the first year as any other Windows release. The company I was working for at the time (large nation-wide retailer) lost millions in productivity trying to roll over to Win7. I moved on to a huge financial org years later, and they were still rocking WinXP, too afraid to move to Win7 because of the disruptions it caused.

    Comparing it 2 years after release, and home user Windows 7 installs were a plague of viruses and malware because nobody ever updated their shit.

    *Every* Windows release is shit. *Every* Windows migration causes pain.

    But, like I said, Windows 10 has been the least worst. And I'm talking both for average home numpties and huge corporates. The numbers of healthy desktops I'm seeing in the wild, at scale, speaks for itself. I sympathise with anyone having issues individually (well, not really, because I'll tell you to stop being silly and just use Linux and screw your video games), but like I said the anecdotal evidence I'm seeing AT SCALE defies everything a handful of folks in this thread are insisting.
     
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  5. ae00711

    ae00711 Member

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    you.. you don't pirate whatever flavour you want? :confused:
     
  6. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    Pirating spyware.

    A plan that couldn't possibly backfire.
     
  7. CAPT-Irrelevant

    CAPT-Irrelevant Member

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    You don't want Windows then.
     
  8. Bold Eagle

    Bold Eagle Member

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    There is a lot of validity within your post but any who had been in the "Fast Ring" (essentially unpaid QA testers) would disagree with you strongly, especially in the early phases of the roll out. I was naive enough to do it on my HTPC but after spending a w/e having to reinstall the borked OS three times on the one w/e due to pushed updates and just wanting to actually watch some media, I stopped doing it.

    None of the OSes have been walks in the park but some of the bugs that came with the Win10 Feature updates have been catastrophic to many users. That is, for one release they lost all personal DATA on the client;
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordon...ndows-7-windows-xp-free-upgrade/#39d080886fa4
    https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-october-2018-update-seems-be-deleting-users-data
    https://redmondmag.com/articles/2018/10/09/microsoft-lost-files-issue-windows-10.aspx

    For the early adopters who want to grab the latest "feature release" at the earliest moment there is significant risk.

    For the regular numpties who just passively wait until these things are thrust up on them the issues are significantly resolved before they are exposed.

    One thing the MS has done with the rollout of WIN10 seems to be a significant reduction in internal testing and quality control teams otherwise how would the complete loss of personal DATA ever be rolled out as just one example? There is a significant dependence on the user to become the quality control agent of their products which seems to be a greed centralised paradigm.

    So whilst I would agree with the majority of your comments I still find it concerning the shift of the quality control to the end point consumer and only those who are the absolute sloth type numpties are having the pain free and cruisy ride.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    So allow me to clarify a few of my points.

    I maintain that Windows 10 is the *least worst* Windows ever made. Windows is now, and has always been, terrible. Anyone who puts trust in it in totality in their business is mad, in my not so humble opinion. I wouldn't ever put anything important on Windows that wasn't backed up on air-gapped systems running completely independent operating systems. But, I repeat, Windows 10 is the least worst. Not the best. I choose my words *very* carefully here.

    The points of yours I've quote above - I agree, they suck. And I won't victim blame. I will repeat that I think *ANYONE* who has "irreplaceable family photos and documents" on *ANY* computer that isn't backed up is asking for disaster. Regardless, it does suck that a Windows updated toasted an OS.

    With that said, and again no disrespect or victim blaming intended, but what volume of users are we talking about here? And how do these volumes of users compare to disasters that have befallen previous versions of Windows - no just patching disasters, but *lack of patching* disasters - i.e.: any bit of malware, cryptolocker or other nasty that occurred because people *didn't* patch, because the OS didn't force them to be safe?

    I will never tell you a single Windows release from epoch to today has been good. I will stick to my guns, and tell you Windows 10 has certainly been the least bad. In a world of social media we hear more and more about individual circumstances being blown out of proportion. Users having an OS melt down and lose all their photos and documents happened millions of times before Windows 10, and will happen millions of times more.

    Yes, continuous rollouts are tough to manage. Yes, Windows 10 has had, across the literal 1 billion + systems, a small volume of issues. And yet, I look at the thousands of systems I have access to directly, both professional and personal, and see fewer problems across the board today than I have in a very long time (I indeed worked on "Windows 3.11 For Workgroups" as a paid gig - one of my first paid jobs - so I've seen the whole spectrum of Windows releases).
     
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  10. Bold Eagle

    Bold Eagle Member

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    Hope it didn't come across as a dig. Your always pragmatic and have been there and I review your posts with interest.
     
  11. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    I dunno. As a tech in the field away from protected and controlled corporate networks, I find the Windows 10 updater miles worse than the Windows 7 updater. In fact I don't know what's more damaging - Malware or the Windows 10 updater.

    Which is good from my perspective as I make good money rectifying Windows update issues every release. I didn't experience these issues under Windows 7 as frequently as I experience them under Windows 10. People can claim it's because people didn't update Windows 7, but as far as I'm concerned not updating did less damage.

    The Windows 10 updater, as well as the kernel and file system which are all equally to blame, sucks.
     
  12. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    Windows 7, I dare say, was tested more thoroughly after the Vista debacle.

    With 10, they seem more cocky after the success with 7/8.
    Cut testing, cut qa, cut even rudimentary checks.

    They also seemed to focus more on patches rather than overhauls.

    This "Let's release what we'd used to call a new version every 6 months" seems... unoptimal.
     
  13. ChinoPD

    ChinoPD Member

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    Curious to see what their inside model is like across all levels in terms of what percentage is home support vs offshore support. That will probably tell a good story.
     
  14. Hotrod2go

    Hotrod2go Member

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    Well good for you elvis, I do not live in your "enterprise sysadmin" world.
    As for malicious code infecting win 7, blame the end user's lack of knowledge & poor attitudes with this specific aspect as per usual. That problem is still around today with any MS OS.
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    That's perfectly fine. I can't, and won't, disagree with your unique, personal experience. Just understand that it doesn't map to what's actually happening at scale.

    Well no, I won't blame the end user. It's 2019 and software *should* be safer and easier than ever.

    And on that point, I do in fact believe Windows 10 is the safest Windows yet. Why? Sensible default permission management, sensible default anti malware tools, sensible automatic updates. Things that absolutely should be on by default, and not take computer enthusiast level skills to enable and verify.

    And I'm basing this "safest yet" call on dramatically lower rates of infections and issues I'm witnessing than ever before. It wasn't very long ago at all that a non-technical home Windows user was *guaranteed* to have a virus, and even businesses weren't far behind. Today is a very different world to 15 short years ago.

    Is Windows 10 perfect? Fuck no! Not even close. But it's less terrible than ever before. That's a great leap forward for a company that, still to this day, struggles to fight its own change-phobic customer base more than any other technical challenge.
     
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  16. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    elvis, have you ever looked at OpenXT?

    https://openxt.org/
    https://openxt.ainfosec.com/builds/regular/stable-9/

    Before they went all "must be intel/amd supermegavmcapableplatform (I forget the name tbh) it really looked like a promising platform for potentially jamming windows in a container with other os' on a single PC and being able to "alt tab" between them - plus, potentially seamless rollbacks, nix firewalls in other vms etc.
    I assume it still is that, as it's developing, but it doesn't run on boring desktop stuff anymore.

    Pretty off topic, but whatevs. Just curious if you've stumbled on it yet.
     
  17. Hotrod2go

    Hotrod2go Member

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    Yes, your obviously more knowledgeable than I about this topic. I'll take your work that your views are accurate & correct.
     
  18. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I repeat: I'm not criticising your personal experience. If you want to get offended, I can't stop you. But my intention is only to illustrate the difference between one person's experience (whether that's yours or mine), and a market of over a billion devices.

    As humans we emphasise personal negative experience. It's a natural thing to do. But it's still important to take an objective viewpoint where possible.

    Haven't seen it before. I've stumbled across Qubes:

    https://www.qubes-os.org/intro/

    Which is a similar idea. I think this approach will catch on in the mainstream eventually (MacOS and Windows both have some of this functionality in certain ways already, but not completely).

    Short term I think these are very experimental, and useless to "average people" (caveat emptor: I don't believe in "average", but let's use that poor term for the consumer market). Again, I think the idea of per process isolation (with hardware assistance eventually) becoming a transparent standard across all computing systems (desktop, server, cloud, mobile, edge, etc).
     
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  19. Recharge

    Recharge Member

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    ex M$ employee and coder for windows vista laying smack down on the whole shit shit :D
     
  20. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    If you find Microsoft history interesting, read up all the tales of woe around Steven Sinofsky. He's pretty much solely responsible for the mess that was both Vista and Windows mobile, mostly around his internally antagonistic management processes that interfered with developers naturally wanting to work together and make things better.

    Amazing how even in a company as big as Microsoft, all it takes is one bad egg in the right layer of management to make the whole thing go titsup.

    Ballmer is a close second. That guy was a total mistake for the company.
     

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