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Windows server purchase

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by coderx, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. coderx

    coderx Member

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    I am wondering if windows server 2012 or 2016 is worth getting for our business. We are a small manufacturer / R&D company that is currently using windows home server 2012 as our 'server'. Our email is hosted by the same company that we rent our web server from.

    The windows home server is only really used for network storage / remote access to files, no domain controller or firewall or anything else.

    We are wanting to move to a PLM / PDM system for our CAD and BOM etc - but the software said it requires "Windows server" - so I am not sure if the home server will cut it.

    Basically, is there a cut down version of windows server we could get that isn't so costly ? - (the owners are loath to spend dollar one on just about anything IT related) - I saw a license for about $900 (no hardware) for windows server 2016 but I just don't know if it would be ok to use with the windows home server as the requirements are saying something about 8 core minimum license and 16 cores required or something .... (I didn't really understand them).

    tl;dr - whats the cheapest way to get a minimal windows server that will be used mainly for file sharing on the network / remote file access and SQL server / PDM / PLM server ?
     
  2. bcann

    bcann Member

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    I was going to suggest Windows Server Nano, but I can't seem to find anything about SQL Server support.

    Home server does appear to at least allow you to run sql server. wether it is officially supported, well who knows.

    Seriously spend the $800 for server 2012/2016 and be done with it.
     
  3. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Server 2016 isn't out yet - don't let anyone talk to you about it. Server 2012 R2 is the current release with 2016 due in Q3.

    Windows Server Essentials. Its full blown Windows Server - but "smb-friendly" license pricing. Nano will have a bunch of limitations that most vendors will bawk at. There is also an upgrade path out of Server Essentials to "Standard".

    All that said what Document Versioning control system are you looking at? Solidworks PLM/PDM? Can you link us a System requirements doc and I'll have a quick check for you
     
  4. Dre_

    Dre_ Member

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    This, start with WS Essentials. It is easy to integrate with Office 365 too if you go down that path later.

    Essentials is circa $600 and no CALs needed for up to 25 users
    Standard is A, more expensive and B, needs CALs
     
  5. OP
    OP
    coderx

    coderx Member

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    The PLM / PDM solution we are looking at is Ares PDM - (Because it's free of course).

    The system specs on the windows home server is :

    AMD Turion II Neo Dual Core 2.2Ghz
    4GB RAM

    OS: Windows home server 2011 SP1 .

    (I don't think it's even meant for SMB use.
     
  6. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Jesus...........


    That's basically the intel Celeron equivalent.....

    Mate your going to have bigger issues then just the $$$ your going to have to eventually put into your OS, let alone SQL.
     
  7. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Can't find anything - is it Ares or Aras?

    Ares being something from .tw
    Aras being something a bit more serious.

    Neither appears free?

    Can you link a system requirements or installation guide?
     
  8. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Well lucky for them it's trivial to run a business in 2016 without computers.

    Back to pencil and paper for them. Much cheaper, and doesn't require those pesky IT guys to run.

    Tell me, do they also not spend money on insurance, accountants, or tables and chairs? All of that sounds like a complete waste of money too. Who needs tools after all? Let's just make stuff with our bare hands.
     
  9. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    My elvis, you're extra ranty today...
     
  10. OP
    OP
    coderx

    coderx Member

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    IT's aras (sorry about that) - they have a free solution but it comes without support and a number of other features. I am thinking maybe I could re-purpose some of the old office PCs (they have a lot more power than the 'server').
     
  11. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Ah, sorry, dealing with some severe lack of common sense elsewhere today, and the frustration is leaking out to OCAU. :upset:
     
  12. TehCamel

    TehCamel Member

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    How many seats are you running?

    Essentials will "run" on a Microserver (G2020T) with 16GB
    However, it's painful.


    Looking at the specs (If i'm looking in the right place - http://www.aras.com/support/documen... Innovator 11.0 - Platform Specifications.pdf)

    Your hardware needs are huge. They suggest 32GB, 16 Core and 1000 iops for a single-server install. that's on top of any other OS requirements.

    Aras do list a "development" instance with 8GB RAM and 4 cores however, whether or not that would work for a live environment is another issue.


    So you're going to need beefy, grunty hardware. Dual CPU ML350G9, 64GB RAM.
    Windows 2012 R2 Standard + CALS
    SQL Server 2012 + CALS

    (The reason I say 2012 R2 Standard is you can get 2 licence grants, so 1x Physical OSE to run HyperV and nothing else, then 1x vOSE AD/DC with Essentials mode and 1x vOSE Application server)


    They aren't doing this on a dime budget. At least, not well.
    quick, back of napkin costs, based on 10 users:

    ml350g9 w/ 2xe5-2620 ; 64GB RAM ; 4x600GB 12G 15K SAS; P440 2GB ; $8500
    SQL Server + 10 CALS ; Server Std + 10 CALS ; Open Licence, no SA ; $7500

    That's without build/configure time, redundancy, backup, things like ilo licences, la la la la
     
  13. OP
    OP
    coderx

    coderx Member

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    Wow... thanks for your help - there is no way they would ever spend that on a system so I guess I have to go back to the drawing board and find another solution.

    (Thanks every one for the advice / help- may not have got the answer I wanted but at least I have a much better idea of what is required)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  14. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I would suggest at least putting a number under their nose, even if you know they won't spend it.

    Sometimes people need a gentle reminder of how much stuff costs in the real world, otherwise they'll forever be convinced that their alternative reality is correct courtesy of confirmation bias.
     
  15. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    agreed with TheCamel.

    CAD document management/process workflow systems are *horrendously* demanding beasts if you're chasing acceptable check-in/check-out speeds.

    I've specced Autodesk Vault systems and broken the 40-50k mark for a server (although this is before *reasonably* priced SSD's).

    Elvis is also right - advise the business of the actual cost for a recommended platform to run this application.
     
  16. bcann

    bcann Member

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    Also advise them of the company that supplies the software you want to use having the ability to say its running on an unsupported platform and say no support.... when you need it the most.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    coderx

    coderx Member

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    True, I will pass along the requirements and cost - definitely going to have to come up with something else though - it took me 6 months to convince them to outlay the money for solidworks (they were using AutoCAD 2006 that one of the engineers owns personally).
     
  18. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Drafting is a weird market ime.

    Basically a draftie is worth 45-50k. But the software and hardware to put in front of them is around $15k (assuming HP/Dell workstation, software license etc).

    As far as i can gather the job doesn't invoice particularly well, because a lot of it is off-shored to cheaper labour.

    It sucks, but from the outside looking in, its a rough industry.
     
  19. TehCamel

    TehCamel Member

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    All you have to do is point them to the BSA site


    http://ww2.bsa.org/country/News and...nAU/2014/enAU-11252014-Planninganddesign.aspx
     
  20. KDog

    KDog Member

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    How many users? Sorry if I missed it.


    If you're using ARAS then it is not cost free. You will need a consultant to install and set it up and configure it for you. You will waste a stupid amount of time if you try to do it yourself. Plus you/staff will require training.
    I would strongly suggest you map out your entire workflow requirements before you worry about any PLM system, if you can't work this out you won't be able to work a PLM system and it will be useless.

    I'm guessing you have >50 users?
    You don't need any windows servers. It will run on a Win7 pro machine and will run with SQL express. If you have these licenses you're set.
     

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