Wireless Deadman swich

Discussion in 'Electronics & Electrics' started by xc351, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. xc351

    xc351 Member

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    Random question but I'm looking for a wireless deadman switch that has multiable handsets with either a push top or pin that pulls out.

    This is for training with live HV and want multiable controllers for trainer/safety observer ect ect

    Cheers
     
  2. Fred Nurk

    Fred Nurk Member

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    Hetronic may have something that fits the bill, no idea what they're like but came across them looking at remote operator cranes and winches.
     
  3. merlin13

    merlin13 Member

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    Near a decade in the wireless industrial control industry, likely that'll need some radio stuff talking to power control hardware.

    And as you say you'll be playing with live HV pretty sure you'll be jumping through some OH&S Hoops of Fire at your end as well.

    Especially as mission-critical/safety stuff like that will operate using a heartbeat over the wireless channels between the central device and all the remotes, to keep the central device happy that all the remotes are still within range and all still saying "Keep It On... Keep It On... Keep It On...".

    Once a remote triggers the "For God's Sake, Turn It Off!" signal the heartbeats from the other devices could simply stooge the central device to "Keep It On" and fire it back up again. Fun will also be the system compensating for a remote device going off the air for some reason - you'll need some logic to allow for radio drop-outs/interference, batteries going flat etc.

    Local crowd for the wireless stuff (and likely they've already had a setup or two around the world that played like this) - try Elpro Technologies here in BrizVegas. Tell them Anton sent you.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    The device it will be operating is a noja acr which will lock out. It has 3 dry contacts that we can program.

    Yea everything will get engineer approved, just the engineers don't play with this stuff much well noone really does.

    I've seen hand helds before just can remember there name/brand ect ect
     
  5. Mjollnir

    Mjollnir Member

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    What is the purpose and intent? Emergency E-stop for the HV observer?
     
  6. OP
    OP
    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    A manual way to drop hv. Will simply be a emergency isolation point (that goes into a set of dry contacts on the acr that we can program in logic) and be able to be locked out effectively stopping hv comming on.

    Wireless transmitters will be for safety observer, trainer ect ect, these will be for more for use while training is happening.
     
  7. Mjollnir

    Mjollnir Member

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    I'd just keep it simple do it with a wired e-stop with SIL rated safety monitoring relay. If the Noja is poled mounted, install it at the base of the pole in weather proof box..

    There may be wireless based solutions with SIL rating, but i'd doubt any HV operators would be happy to use it. Plus you'd need to get DNSP approval i think and they are very stringent on anything wireless.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    There will be a e stop at base of the pole but people will also be 200m away working on other equipment that will be fed from this acr.

    It's basicly a gas switch that feeds a traing yard with 12 or so devices all daisy chained in a string pretty much plus options to bypass stuff via ring main units ect ect.

    Absoultly will be approved and hence not looking for a home brew solution. Most of not all our EWPs are now remotely operated so there are company's and products that can be used arround HV.


    It's already such a small specialty field let alone something suitable for a training yard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2020
  9. Mjollnir

    Mjollnir Member

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    I am pretty sure Noja has a control unit with SCADA and remote operation. Ausnet uses them here for remote control from control room instead of sending HV operator into the field.

    Then again the remote control is for planned switching, not for e-stop. The redundancies and risk control is very different.
     
  10. OP
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    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    Yea they all have scada but they require a modem. They actully have phone apps as well (we don't have that module installed) for WiFi or Bluetooth control.

    I actully think this will not have the scada enabled as we are using the radio supply (12v dc) to power some other gear in there.

    I actully do alot of scada/control testing on these units.

    I have actully been in contact with noja about this job and they agree the 3 aux programmable inputs is the way to go and I will run the final set up through them.

    The e stop is easy, but the wireless has me stumped it will be passed along till. A suitable option is found.

    But as staff under training will be swinging hv sticks arround the place and operating EWPs its just so if Frank isn't paying attention and swings boom wrong way (guys may not be familiar with this ewp either) they can kill it.

    Yard will be dead for some training but there is some shit that needs to be done live. Noja will be run with very minimal pick ups with auto reclose disabled and instantaneous trip curves. But that comes down to protection engineers.

    It's a rather complicated job protection engineers don't grasp its for training and just trying to use a cookie cutter approach, it's a 1 off design at so design boys are scratching there head with the physical set up, trainers want wireless stops.
    No one but me has ever even seen a noja.
     
  11. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    Even though you have black channel options for SIL rated systems I would still steer clear of wireless. We are going through this at the moment for remote isolation of underground systems and getting SIL compliant wireless links is a major headache, and going black channel isn't really helping much.

    If you can, keep it wired.
     
  12. merlin13

    merlin13 Member

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    THAT'S White Man's Magic for wireless at the best of times, let alone for safety critical stuff.

    Dumb Question for the OP though - HV as in High Voltage, or HV as in Heavy Vehicle?

    Oodles of wireless setups being used worldwide for heavy vehicle/machinery operation.
     
  13. OP
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    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    Sorry will be a high voltage with 11kv, however ewp bucket trucks will be used in this yard as part of training.
     
  14. merlin13

    merlin13 Member

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    Well, looks like you'll be looking at two independent systems then. Better call in the professionals.

    And hope you've also a sense of humour and some patience, because to start with you also would be looking at licensed radio frequency use for each system and not Free-To-Air.
     
  15. ArmoureD

    ArmoureD Member

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    I wouldn't put my life on the line based off a high voltage wireless saftey device put together on OCAU :D:D
     
  16. OP
    OP
    xc351

    xc351 Member

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    Neither would I but was looking for mandactures/brands.

    But we ended up going on a Ascom set up was $15000 that was supplied only we then had to fit into a enclosure. I expect total cost will be closer to 20k.

    Its been used in this set up before and engineers are sorting out the final details
     

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