Zoom Meeting

Discussion in 'General Software' started by KANNIS, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. sammy_b0i

    sammy_b0i Laugh it up, fuzzball!

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    It's not though. Just because it's easy to use, doesn't meant it's aimed at plebs.

    If you're responsible for rolling it out to your org, or a large group, for corporate/professional purposes, and you don't look at the very easy to find global account settings to essentially one-click enforce defaults... I feel it's appropriate to victim blame.

    In my organization, zoom was the most suitable for many reasons. One of them is that gallery view can show up to 49 participants. So that works great when you've got a class of 30 and a teacher or two. Compared to Teams where you get to see, what, four at a time?

    Horses for courses... and Zoom isn't for everyone's needs, but it's perfect for ours, the bad press is way overblown, and I'm not concerned about it.
     
  2. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    This is precisely the problem being documented though. And just because someone isn't a technology professional doesn't make them a "pleb". We need to knock this elitist attitude off.

    Again, not the problem documented. The issue here is people who aren't professionals jumping on an "easy to use" product and getting stung.

    Same response again - the security concerns are single and ad-hoc users, not professional rollouts.

    Repeating my advice - if you're a home user or someone looking to use a tool in a small business, avoid Zoom. If you're using whatever you company has rolled out for you, then this whole conversation is moot because your technology support professionals *should* have secured it.

    But if you're in an organisation and using "Shadow IT" - i.e.: running a tool not provided by your org (say, using Zoom even though you're an Office365 site with Teams or a GSuite site with Hangouts), then stop using custom tools and go back to what's provided.

    The one and only time I'll victim blame is when a professional organisation either doesn't listen to professional IT advice, or hires substandard IT professionals who don't follow industry standards and best practices and end up with security breaches.

    But I repeat, the vast majority of problems going on with Zoom right now are neither of these circumstances. It's regular people using Zoom because it's "user friendly", setting it up with defaults that are dangerous, and ending up in a bad scenario. In that case, we cannot blame the victim. "User friendly" tools should be secure by default, end of story. Some big players had to learn that the hard way (Microsoft suffered it for a long time). But in its current state, Zoom for non-technical users is a nightmare. For businesses with competent IT professionals, that's a totally different story (even then, it's clear some very big orgs are dumping it anyway, which says a lot).

    The bad press is accurate for the user base it's documenting. All of the problems constantly demonstrate ad-hoc setups by non-technical people. If that doesn't match your organisation that has IT professionals to do the installs, then it's not the bad press that's overblown, but rather your setup that's different to what the media is documenting.

    Google Hangouts Meet allows:

    * 250 active (camera+mic) participants per call. All users shown in small windows in a carousel down the bottom, with the active speaker appearing in the larger window by default, but at any time you can click on a participant and lock them to the larger screen in your view (physical screen size limits are your enemy here - dual, ultra-wide and 4K screens help).

    * 100,000 participants viewing a stream (passive picture+audio, not contributing)

    These changes were released March 3 and will continue at present until July 1:
    https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2020/03/enabling-hangouts-meet-premium-features.html

    From memory the limit previously was 100 participants for non-enterprise users (double Zoom's offering).

    Specific to teachers, GSuite for Education receives substantial discounts, and includes tools like Google Classroom:
    https://edu.google.com/products/classroom/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Classroom

    I'm not up to date on Skype, but I have seen announcements that they're dramatically upping limits on that platform too.

    If you are an ad-hoc user (i.e.: not a technology professional, or don't have it set up by your org), Skype is free to use currently and far more secure than Zoom "out of the box":
    https://www.skype.com/en/free-conference-call/
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  3. theSeekerr

    theSeekerr Member

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    This actually seems to be one of the big things people prefer about Zoom - for whatever reason, I'm told the grid view is "better" than one that switches to the active speaker.

    I have no idea what value seeing 20+ tiny simultaneous video feeds brings to anybody - for instance, for classwork, why would I want to see the 28 people in the room who aren't currently contributing anything? - but this is what people tell me all the same.
     
  4. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I have to agree. On giant 4K screens, sure. On my laptop, totally pointless.

    One thing that irritates me about all of these video conferencing solutions is how they intentionally block apps from installing on smart TVs running Android. That's a clear attempt to block low cost solutions and push expensive enterprise conferencing gear. But again in the current climate, people want to use the tech they have, including their home TVs.
     
  5. DarthWindu

    DarthWindu Member

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    eyy Teams sucks for my purposes.

    i can't believe the video limit is 4 and that you can't take any active measures to see what's going on with less-talky people.

    even for a small team, the one person who for whatever reason isn't engaged/talkative/whatever, who only pops up if you ask them a direct question that they have to answer, can lurk through the whole thing....
     
  6. theSeekerr

    theSeekerr Member

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    And? Are you proposing that the number of words a person contributes to a meeting somehow correlates to their usefulness?
     
  7. DarthWindu

    DarthWindu Member

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    no, I wasn't.

    more of a welfare/engagement angle.

    it's getting in the way of video being a useful tool to know where everyone's at, for a bunch of people thrust into a new world of remote work in an industry where that is not the usual way of interacting, and where opportunities for non-group contact are minimal.

    not inclined to go into specifics of the exact dynamics i'm talking about, never mind.
     
  8. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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  9. JSmithDTV

    JSmithDTV Member

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  10. OP
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    KANNIS

    KANNIS Member

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    Our office has now moved onto MS Teams. I have to say it's so much better after using it.
     
  11. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Old thread, but it's topical - Google Meet now offer Grid view.

    If the one reason you continue to choose to put your business at risk is an aesthetic choice, then safer alternatives exist.

    Half a million Zoom user credentials are out in the wild:
    https://indianexpress.com/article/t...om-video-app-logins-on-sale-dark-web-6391970/

    The platform prioritises a sexy interface over real security, which was fine back in the Windows 95 days. It doesn't cut the mustard in 2020, and especially right now where the AFP are reporting an increase in attack frequency of 50% or more due to the soft target of users working from home during COVID19 lockdown on very poorly maintained systems and networks.
     
  12. sammy_b0i

    sammy_b0i Laugh it up, fuzzball!

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    Zoom 5 is out, and offers full 256-bit GCM encryption. Available now, forced for all users at the end of the month.

    And credentials leak? Psh. Happens everywhere unfortunately, as you're no doubt aware.

    People should be changing their passwords just like every other data leak. Stupid end users using the same email address and PW for a zoom account as they use on Edmodo, or anything else on haveibeenpwned.
     
  13. connico

    connico Member

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    So much better :p
     
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  14. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Everyone finding it better, easier to use?
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Common? Yes. "Everywhere"? No. Don't make the common mistake of confusing high-media events with things being common place. A security professional should be more objective than that.

    I repeat: stop blaming end users. Good tools allow you to enforce centralised security. If your org has rolled out Zoom centrally, do your duty of care and force your users to have 2FA (I do this for the O365 and GSuite domains I manage - no exceptions any more in 2020). If you're letting your users use Zoom as an ad-hoc thing, push training material out to them.

    Zoom's appalling approach to security is not the fault of end users. Stop blaming end users.

    Are the keys still stored in China like before? Or has that been fixed.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  16. connico

    connico Member

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    For my clients that are predominantly on an MS desktop stack... the integration on PC, Phone and Tablet has made employment easy and users love just clicking the reminder and join... lol Get MS certified devices and no more switching inputs (mic and camera)...

    For meeting rooms build MS approved room systems and you're basically bullet proof. Increase bandwidth management has been easy and with intune managing clients devices it's easy to deploy and update... lol
     
  17. OP
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    KANNIS

    KANNIS Member

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    Slightly different but once you pick it up it's easy. The quality and sound is way better also. No scrappy noises and or blurred vision.
     
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  18. connico

    connico Member

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    All the press releases haven't mentioned the location of encryption keys
     
  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I asked about this back in the Video Conferencing thread some time ago. You vehemently defended Zoom as the far superior alternative, and I asked why you would use it on top of an existing product when it's another thing to have to integrate, and another cost doubling up on a product you already have.

    Thread, post dated March 15: https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/video-tele-conferencing.1267937/

    I see that's changed now. Was it recent improvements that changed your mind?

    Dated April 5. Interested to know if it's changed in a month:
    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/zoom-meetings-weakly-encrypted-and-get-keys-from-china-546038
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  20. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    yeah it's pretty solid all round in my experience. Only issue I have, and probably my Ultrabook, is low sound so I have to use headphones.
     

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